data-csrf="1713573833,a81acef7f9826efd2fa39adc79d90d55" Start At The Fucking Start............... | As Real As It Gets

Start At The Fucking Start...............

Big Stick

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Nov 18, 2007
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I get these questions often,so let's nip a bunch in one fell swoop. The questions being geared towards F/F(feed/function) ala various Remmie flavorings. Shit is easy to diagnose,if you know what you are looking for and where to find it.

1) This pertains to any/all chamberings,whether .378,.473 or .532 or deviations of. If shit is jumping the rails,you likely have her assembled incorrectly(that easily making up 95%+ of all "issues").

Here is a .378 short wearing an as issued magbox(which is one of at least three variants),with all seated correctly. It is an ADL box,less the ADL box retainer screw in place.



If shit is still jumping the rails,with correct assembly being determined(including the follower,follower spring and their geometry),then things are still an easy fix.

2) The fix being the extreme latitude afforded the magbox's lips ability to be manipulated,in relationship to the receiver's rails. Here you can see the daylight alongside the scalloped section of the magbox and all of that daylight is latitude.



To preclude something jumping the rail(s),simply massage the forward 1/3 or so of the magbox's lips outward,so that more of the catridge's surface area is trapped beneath the rail. While I'm sure a fucking idiot could fuck that up,it assuredly isn't Rocket Fucking Science. Tweak lightly and ascertain function until you are there.

Again,only a fucking idiot would be making F/F assertations with live fucking ammo.

3) Here's a quick cursory peek,regarding a visual assembly verification,less disassembly. One can immediately note that the portside of the mag,is nestled fully into the cutout within the receiver that accepts same.



Obviously,on a fully assembled rifle you pull the bolt and depress the follower to yield the peek.

4) Another cursory peek,though purposely shot at 180 to beat shit into heads. On all Remmie magboxes excepting the .378 variants,one can easily pull the bolt and depress the follower,to see correct box assembly. The rear of the magwell will be mated or boasting a CH lineal seam and it's surface will be flush from transition from starboard to port.



This was purposely poked together wrong,which will of course induce F/F woe.

5) Another look,from a different angle,of that same assembly attempt.



Shit is just as glaring,loook from the top down,while wearing it's stock. LOTSA guys fuck this up.

6) This is a portside receiver peek of that incorrect assembly. Which is reiteration to peek at both angles,when making a determination.



7) This why you can't see .378 woes,due to the spacer in the ass that robs a view at the seam. You can still have the magbox installed askew and disassembly is the best way to resolve "weirdness" there.



The red 3M tape also hints of how you reasemble less a woe,in that making the seam initially is a good start and secondly it precludes an ADL's follower spring from being trapped between magbox and stock belly,which of course will cause woes as well.

The astute savvy that on a BDL,you can pop the bottom,pull the follower and get a very good look at shit without popping the stock,which is something that you cain't do in ADL fashion. Though I prefer ADL.

Lastly,fully seating the follower spring onto the follower bears much fruit(hint). I see that one fucked up often too. Also the attitude in which the follower rides the spring,is another that folks like to fuck up. I'd take some pics,but am enjoying a snow squall which killed my pastel ambient light.

I ALWAYS put an extry bend in the 4-corners of the magwell,so that a little tapping is requisite to fully seat the magbox. They cannot shoot loose,though I've been knowed to run a bead of RVT silicone around the juncture,just for the fuck of it.

Putting shit together correctly,has been knowed to enhance one's "luck"......................(grin)
 

Big Stick

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Not all followers is equal and I don't much care for stamped .378's.



How to nip a fuckup squarely in the buds,as per ADL assembly.



Note that she's a whack shy of being drove home,but once she's there,it's until I wish it otherwise. The shiny corners are left slightly exposed,to pinpoint the 4-corner tweak approach to longterm happiness.

Mmmmmmm...now I wonder if it'll return to zero after reassembly.............(grin)
 

Big Stick

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With luck,we'll get to touch upon the 82 Trick Move train of thought and mebbe someone with a fucking Winchester will feel like flapping their gums.....................(grin)
 

Big Stick

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I very much enjoy the Peter Paul Mouser Motherfuckers,because if you handed a balloon to 10 of them,9 would be stumped on how to tie a knot in the end of the fucking thing,thinkin' they'd gotten another "bad one".

Common fucking sense is a revelation to many................(grin)
 

Big Stick

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I'd say if you order from Remmie,you will reliably receive a stamping.

Little things start to add up in the big picture,when one starts musing high volume round counts of the utility sort,in less than spectacular weather and when the last "case" the system has seen is the cardboard one she shipped in.

Meat and Taters Rifles sing no matter the circumstance..............
 

Huckleberry

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2007
273
0
Alabama
Bullet tip jams into the action or barrel shank when closing the bolt. 80 sierra loaded to 2.50. My 700 AI does fine. Both have Gunrunner followers and the mag box spacer has been modified the same on both. Both were built by same smith, same reamer, same dies.
 

Big Stick

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A nosedown attitude is easily arranged,via the magbox's lips being too tight up front(forward 1/3 again). Open her up,the attitude will change and shit will start jumping in the hole.

A follower spring can induce that woe too,typically when the follower isn't seated fully upon it(meaning shy of being buried forward in the follower's nose).

No different than timing a DBM system.....................
 

Huckleberry

Well-known member
Dec 9, 2007
273
0
Alabama
Thanks. My smith is new to the game as far as rifles go. Great machinist though.

Both guns have been excellent so far except for the one feeding issue. Both running Pac-Nor polygonal barrels, 7 twist.
 

Big Stick

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Ascertain correct assembly mating first and then start scratching shit off the list from there.....................
 

Brad Arnett

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Nov 17, 2007
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Michigan
Great post....great pics....and I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who tapes up ADL boxes prior to slamming them in a stock.
 

partsman

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Dec 9, 2007
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68
West Kelowna BC
It was all written by sister I bet, or else this is all she has left for dad to do, he taught her too well and now she is outdoing him. :D

But I also agree it is a great post.

Even Lee24 could learn something here. :blush:
 

Brad Arnett

Well-known member
Nov 17, 2007
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Michigan
I had a reply for you.....but I watched your little signature video for a few minutes and forgot what I was going to say....
 

Big Stick

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This Post is prolly a Classic...beings it covers the shit that DO matter and none of which that don't.................
 

Brad Arnett

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Nov 17, 2007
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Michigan
I know you post a lot of stuff....but I'll single this one out and say that it was a very good post, you're right. It should be sticky'd in the custom rifle section. IMHO.

Feeding issues seem to be THE #1 problem that guys run in to and often times they just have no idea where to start....this post squarely lays out all the pieces on the board, and shows where to place them. Again, great post!! :)
 

Big Stick

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Remington's "bane" is their inherent latitude.

Dumbfuckers ain't no good at making choices.....................(grin)
 

Big Stick

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Was figuring the shim thing was gonna come up and this is a good place for it. Everyone should oughtta upload their pics of how they broached the subject,as a courtesy to them mulling same.

It'd be tough to argue against the practice of spot welding the rear of the magwell(outside surface,nearest trigger),as a means of negating one facet of incorrect assembly. Pouring the shim ala SteelBed,do accomplish same.

Lotsa ways to skin that cat...............
 

Parish

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Nov 18, 2007
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Luhweezy-ana
This was easy.



Cut out the spacer with a dremel and hacksaw a piece of .25" aluminum stock from the hardware store ($12). Some have drilled and tapped the aluminum for screws but I'm not that sophisticated. I drilled a few half-depth holes in the back of the aluminum, cut a few purchase slits in the rear corners of the mag box, and JB'd it all in place. A C-clamp held everything while it all set up. It ain't coming apart anytime soon and gives an inside dimension a bit over 2.5".
 

StoneCold

Active member
Apr 4, 2009
44
0
southernCal
Well guys as my first post here I will try and keep my "dumbfucktitude" to a minimum. :whistle:

So my wife bought a new model 7 pretator in .243 for herself - you know the whole modest length, modest profile thing - all on her own. We took it out to shoot and it is shooting real well. The feeding however - sucked. The rounds are nosing waaay up as they come out of the mag box and won't exit until the very last second.

Based on what I have read here so far...I should tighten up the front of the mag box until they nose down into the chamber. Am I thinking the right way??

Thanks for any help.

SC
 

Painless

Administrator
Take the stock off, look at the back of the mag box. Where the two sides meet needs to even from top to bottom. If that is good, open up the first 1/3 of the box, and that will give your rounds a little more time in the box. By no means am I an expert on this but Stick told me this a week or two ago and it worked like magic..........Blake

To answer your question no do not tighten up the front, spread them a little further apart......
 

StoneCold

Active member
Apr 4, 2009
44
0
southernCal
Thought I should update y'all. I opened the front of the mag box. It feeds more nose down and smoother. Thanks all. :grin:

I was surprised by how soft the metal of the mag box is. It is a little "wavy" now but as soft as it is I bet it will slowly smooth out. Simple and effective...perfect.

SC
 

Big Stick

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The magbox is easily coaxed and despite that,they stay shaped as per whim.

I typically move lips via the rails of a .063" 3/8" chain bar................
 

Dan In Alaska

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Nov 30, 2007
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64
Anchorage
Big Stick said:
Not all followers is equal and I don't much care for stamped .378's.
I ran across a machined follower for my .223 AI, and it works LOADS better than the stamped versions I've tried.

Anyone have a source for more?

....Wait a minute.....I mean they SUCK!....Worst POS I've ever seen....

Anyone have a source for more? :grin:
 

Jamie

Well-known member
Nov 17, 2007
620
1
Oly. WA
Stick.
Thanks for takeing the time to type this up. The .223 that I've been cussing for the last year feeds like a champ now.
 

StoneCold

Active member
Apr 4, 2009
44
0
southernCal
Well since I have been buying a few more rems lately...no thanks to you guys.. :whistle:

I have one that is doing something different and I don't want to dick it up. It FF's fine when loaded and shot. However, when I load it and close the bolt over the top (empty chamber for hunting) the rear of the round stays too low when I cycle it and try to chamber the round.(not picking it up) I have taped the sides and bottom of the box to ensure proper assembly and have ensured same. (ADL) So, do I open the rear of the box just a smidge....??? Or..??

It almost seems like the bolt dragging over the top of the round makes it drop and stay down (make sense?)

StoneCold
 

FVA

Well-known member
Dec 6, 2007
535
0
i have 223AI M7 that has been a bit of a balky feeder since inception.
I opened the box lips a bit via vice grips and threw in a machined follower from Brownell's while I was at it.
Need to get some trigger time on it but it is feeding dummy rounds fine now. Can't see how adding primers/powder will change things.
 

Big Stick

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I'm a great fan of dummy rounds,both for ascertaining feed/function and as aids to COAL settings................
 

cwh

Administrator
Nov 18, 2007
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Anchorage
Waiting on one of those followers, and Dan is as well. Ordered a couple, and received long action followers instead.

The part numbers on the packaging were correct, but it's tough to get a long action follower in a 223 mag box.
 

Dan In Alaska

Well-known member
Nov 30, 2007
3,366
64
Anchorage
cwh said:
Waiting on one of those followers, and Dan is as well. Ordered a couple, and received long action followers instead.

The part numbers on the packaging were correct, but it's tough to get a long action follower in a 223 mag box.
That was a pretty neat trick, wasn't it?

I'm guessing you dropped the return stuff in the mail? Thanks.
 

cwh

Administrator
Nov 18, 2007
4,574
99
Anchorage
Yeah... hopefully it's waiting for you when you get back.

Your car is in the garage, and I'm kind of jealous of the Autostart.

I didn't see anything glaringly wrong with your house, but didn't look real close.
 

Supper

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2008
471
0
WY/UT
I'm finally getting around to diagnose some magbox woes with my 243, and have a question regarding your pics. The magbox should fit tight into the milled area of the receiver, correct? If so, I need a different box, mines as loose as a $2 whore waiting at the end of a southbound flight...

Granted, its sitting in a Stiller rather then a Rem.
 

Big Stick

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Do the 4-corner tweak. Simply spread the outermost four corners(which have zero affect on feed/function) and massage them until they snug into the receiver inlet.

No thang...............
 

jpipes

Well-known member
Jan 21, 2008
201
0
TX
I'll be damned if the magbox tweak didn't fix the 223ai feeding woes I was having. A pair of needlenose pliers, a couple of grunts, and the magbox now affords more space for the 223ai rounds to sit.

I was having a hell of a time with rounds nosing into the barrel shank and/or popping out of the mag box and was getting pissed.

Thanks for the post.
 

Angry Scotsman

Well-known member
Nov 18, 2007
451
0
Orygun
Is there any performance difference in milled followers? Are the "old style" as good or better than the new style OEM milled followers that have the extra ridge/lip running port side that makes the follower sit lower?
 

Kimber7wsm

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Mar 23, 2010
180
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Indy
I'm assuming these are the stamped ones, no?

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=698795
 

Big Stick

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My LTR wears the longest of my 223AI throats and shoots prolly better than it should. Thinking real hard about poking it into the altered HTG,for hind legged pursuits.

If only the LTR's were stainless....................
 

Big Stick

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For it's asking price,I'd rather build on a 1-8" and dump it in an A5...if going heavy.

Would greedily take a Montucky 223,if driving as issued outta da box.

Less is sooooooooooo much more...just sayin',but I've more than a few to choose from...............(grin)
 

TWR

Well-known member
Feb 27, 2009
362
0
Oklahoma
Agreed, though picking an XCR up for $100 more than my LTR didn't hurt too long.

Speaking of Montucky's, anything wrong with one in 308 besides 308?
 

cjurasek

Well-known member
Apr 9, 2008
56
0
Northern Ca,
I run a .308 Montucky, got it cheap. It shoots the 130 tsx, but had a little trouble with lapua 155's. I'm guessing I should try the lapua's again. The pigs don't like the 130's, so I keep shooting them.
 

TWR

Well-known member
Feb 27, 2009
362
0
Oklahoma
Was thinking about swapping my faux ti 25-06ai for a 308 Kimber I found but probably sold it tonight. Cash would help find a Montucky in a better caliber I'd think.
 

Big Stick

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TWR said:
Agreed, though picking an XCR up for $100 more than my LTR didn't hurt too long.

Speaking of Montucky's, anything wrong with one in 308 besides 308?
The LTR handle is their best effort,save KS and 40X McMillans.

Were it duped in S/S...it'd be my pick of the litter,when talking like-ish contours.

I hate 308's,but were I to slum a 308 as a mainstay Killing Rifle,it'd sure as fuck be a Montucky. '15/155 Scenars,being a given.

The Montuckys is light years ahead of everyone else................
 

TWR

Well-known member
Feb 27, 2009
362
0
Oklahoma
Have a 243ai in a faux ti but wouldn't mind a 204 Montucky come cat season... Any word on how them come together?
 

Big Stick

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20's ain't for me,nor are 17's...so I'm wayyyyy outta dat loop on purpose.

The Alexander Arms 17 Hummer Krunchenticker do intrigue as a Fur Gun/Play Toy and I'd not mind a Test Drive to see how it do.

Pass the 223AI Montucky,75A-Max and get the fuck outta my way.................(grin)
 

bgold

Well-known member
Jul 30, 2008
917
16
Missouri
I was finding out, until the boy stole mine. He's eyefucking swirlys now, but think he'll live with the Ti stock.

At least he has good taste....
 

TWR

Well-known member
Feb 27, 2009
362
0
Oklahoma
Awhile back I found a 243 Montucky for a decent price and before I even shot it I had thoughts of rebarrelng to 22-250AI. While checking things out I noticed it wouldn't pick up the third round in the mag but forgat about it and sent it off to the smith.

Got it out today and fire formed a few rounds then remembered the third shell deal. I jacked around with it before remembering this thread. Told me everything I needed to know and it works perfectly now.

Thanks Stick.
 

Big Stick

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Out of alllllllll the rifles I've had and been around,I've only seen one bad one.

And I happily remain in the bidness of buying rifles that "don't shoot".................(grin)
 

Big Stick

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257 Wby Mag said:
Then its Remmy 700's or bust......
Imitation is THE most sincere form of flattery and a Window Licking mainstay. I've been saving for a 700,but don't know if an ADL or BDL is better. Laffin'!

Bless your heart..............
 

Big Stick

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257 Wby Mag said:
Now its model 70 style, fucking fag.......
Why do you Window Lickers,always go to cramming things in your mouths and asses?

Never had a Model 70 either.

Laffin'!..............
 

Big Stick

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257 Wby Mag said:
Hornies still kill shit..... Hint....

Kinda like they always have....
I'm all ears in regards to bullets,as all I've ever shot was Nosler Partitions. Hornadys sound interesting,do tell.

Laffin'!...................
 

16Bore

Well-known member
Feb 11, 2010
3,272
1
Virgina
Ok, I've restarted at the fucking start and getting a nose dive/ ass up on the follower in a modified .378 mag box (1/4" spacer). Follower is machined, spring buried to the nose. Is there an issue as to where the assembly rides in the box? More forward?

Fucking missed something here..
 

Big Stick

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Nose down ='s open up that portion of the box.

Ass high ='s pinch that portion of the box.

The box is the culprit,follower moot.................
 

Supper

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2008
471
0
WY/UT
Going through this process for a third time on my Montucky Roy and still having a bit of a head scratcher. First through third feed just fine, fourth hangs up while about to start heading up the feed ramp. Box has been taped, tweaked, and adjusted. Everything looks to be kosher.

Swapped a Rem spring and follower in a while back and don't know what I did with the OEM to be able to swap back and see if the feeding would be less problematic that way.

Any recommendations on how to proceed?
 

Supper

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2008
471
0
WY/UT
Near as I can tell, its hanging right when the shoulder hits the ramp and the body starts to jump out from the mag lips. The bottom round is also getting the shit scored out of the brass in a evenly spaced parallel track. Will try to grab a pic in a bit.
 

Big Stick

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That's mag lips,that ain't none too smooth.

Open fore portion of mag lip,on the 4th round's side of the fence..................
 

Supper

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2008
471
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WY/UT
Looks like I'll have plenty of time to dick with it since my stock just split at the wrist. Going to drop them a line tomorrow and see what the fuck.
 

Chesapeake

Well-known member
Aug 24, 2010
1,287
14
SW Washington
I've fought this on a few Montana's. WSM's if that matters. None have had any outward latitude as issued. So to get the "open the front" effect Stick prescribes I go opposite and close up the rear by bending the side of the mag box in an inch in front of the rear. I bend it in ever so slightly.
I do this on the side that the round is coming from that goes half way then jambs up without popping up into the bolt.
It apears to me that the front of the round doesn't hang. It's actually that as the nose climbs the ass drops till the bolt actually rides over the rim and catches the rebate grove. Then she sticks. If you then back the bolt slightly it will pop up in.

By bending in the rear the round will pop out up into the bolt before it gets into too steep of a nose up orientation.

I believe that's what your describing anyway.
 

Big Stick

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Supper said:
Looks like I'll have plenty of time to dick with it since my stock just split at the wrist. Going to drop them a line tomorrow and see what the fuck.
"Snug" bedding?!?....................(grin)
 

Supper

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2008
471
0
WY/UT
Big Stick said:
Supper said:
Looks like I'll have plenty of time to dick with it since my stock just split at the wrist. Going to drop them a line tomorrow and see what the fuck.
"Snug" bedding?!?....................(grin)
Only bedding on it was what I used to capture the lug, everything else was as-issued.
 

dznnf7

Well-known member
Apr 30, 2016
602
27
I'll resurrect this thread and ask...

223 Montana, 75 HPBT feeding issue: Left round jams with the tip of the bullet against barrel to the right of the chamber. Right round does the opposite, jamming the tip into the barrel on the left side. Most of the time. OEM follower and spring, lengthened mag box.

It also fails to eject periodically, but that's because some jackass with a Dremel rounded off the sharp corner while shortening the ejector.

Can't wait for that phone call to Kimber to try and get a new blade out of them.
 

okbow87

Well-known member
Jan 2, 2013
133
0
OKC, OK
You don't need a dremel to open the rails DZNNF7. You need to open the feed lips on the box mag, which is I'm sure what Stick was saying. Don't go grinding on the bottom of the action.
 

Driftin'

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2009
2,227
13
Offshore
Back to that Dremel again?

Some fixes are so simple that some folks can't help themselves in making things far worse....
 

dznnf7

Well-known member
Apr 30, 2016
602
27
Thanks for the warnings guys. Just a smart-ass comment; the Puerto Rican milling machine is not in play. I read the whole thread and just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything. Box is expanded and shit's feeding fine. Appreciate you sharing all your hard-won experience Stick.