data-csrf="1627348456,cb8615644a3bd5bf70e5cd81b72c0b1f" FNG looking for a starting load for 7-08 vanilla | As Real As It Gets

FNG looking for a starting load for 7-08 vanilla

Torleif

Well-known member
Mar 11, 2017
45
0
Sunset Bay, AK
Hey guys, I'm pretty new around here and to reloading. A buddy of mine steered me this direction when I had some questions about why some of my reloads were misfiring. I learned from here that the culprit was excessive headspace due to improperly resizing my brass. I think I got that sorted out, and have since enjoyed a 0% misfire rate. So thanks for that.

Anyway, since I've been lurking around here. I've picked up a lot of ideas and have started putting together a "new" rifle. Now that it's about ready to go bang. I have a couple questions.

The rifle started out as Remington 700 ADL in .243 vanilla. I stripped it down to the receiver and screwed on and headspaced a 1-9 Remage barrel in 7-08. I went with a high-tech specialties stock (I will spend the extra on a McMillan Edge next time) I finished inletting and pillar and glass bedded it. Put in a Timney trigger and topped it with a leupold VX-2 3-9 wearing an M-1 turret for elevation adjustment and a CDS dial for windage. I'm curious about those SS fixed fuckers for the next project though.

I started with .308 Lapua brass, necked it down and primed it with WLR primers (just got 1000 CCI 200's and plan to use those in the future). I intend to run Nosler 140 BT's for fire forming and load development purposes as I have a pretty good pile on hand and then run 140 Accubonds for killing shit.

My questions are: do I need to jam the bullet in the lands on the first go around to make sure I get a good fireform or can I load them to fit in the magazine and get good results. Also I need a good starting load using R17 or R19. And, is it worth my time to gun the ELDX 162's at ADL mag length restraints or would that be pissing up a rope? I have PTG DBM on order, but it's going to be time to kill shit before you know it. So I'm going to put installing that off until winter or I might just save it for another project.

Thanks.
 

dakotagun

Well-known member
Jan 25, 2017
329
10
Shitsville
IMO, no its not necessary to jam if you are sizing properly. When necking down 308 to 7mm just be aware of how much you are sizing things. Size them far enough so they chamber with a bit of resistance and rock on.

Now, if you have already Fully resized the brass then you might want to kiss for a better result, but I'd chase things from the start with a false shoulder.
 

Nail

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2008
749
0
45
Mississippi
I like to drive false shoulders and kiss during forming/load development...can't think of a downside to doing so. From there I will adjust seating depth to magazine fit when needed.

Can't help with the data with the combos you have mentioned. ELDs are great I'm sure but if you like the Accubonds then just shoot them for now, I'm sure they will work, you can make the switch to the ELDs later.

JMO
 

Torleif

Well-known member
Mar 11, 2017
45
0
Sunset Bay, AK
Thanks for the feedback. I did touch the shoulder half a CH when I resized the brass. I 'm going to start with 40g of R17 behind the Nosler 140s with a smooch. Then reload them to fit in the magazine and work up from there for accuracy.
 

Big Stick

Well-known member
Nov 18, 2007
41,606
245
Paradise
Nosler has no answer to Hornie and you may as well cut to the fucking chase and roll 162's.

Go DBM Smooches and never look back.................
 

Torleif

Well-known member
Mar 11, 2017
45
0
Sunset Bay, AK
I should have ordered a bdl stock and planned on going DBM from the start given the chosen caliber and ideal bullet choice. Now I have an ADL stock pillar/glass bed to an action sporting a barrel that needs more generous longitude to appreciate than the ADL can afford. I'm thinking about ordering another barrel for this action/stock and saving the 7-08 for another action that I want to re-stock/re-barrel.

I would like to go with a fast twist .243, but I think I'll run into the same problem if I'm trying to run the 103 Hornies.

Any hints?
 

Big Stick

Well-known member
Nov 18, 2007
41,606
245
Paradise
With said 7-08 in hand,it wouldn't take but 5 minutes to whistle some 162's and extrapolate said potential. No thang after knowing that,to decide to go DBM or simply pole vault. I couldn't stand not KNOWING how it'd do,with 162 ELD Smooches.

If you opt a CDI DBM,they will inlet your stock for free and do fast/good work. Only thing left to do then,is to notch the front receiver ring and then you can do as you please for COAL.



AS to the .243" 103 Hornie ELD,I could not speak to them,other than to state the obvious in that they are going to beat a fucking whole bunch shorter than any of the 162's. For that reason alone,it will by design eat up less COAL latitude and be more forgiving in OEM mag constraints.

Were I in transition mode,from holding pat on an ADL blueprint and wanting to keep as is(nobody loves blind mags more than I),I'd be looking at 6 Kreedmire over 243Win. Alpha brass is reason enough and then of course there's the fact that you get like case capacity at a shorter case length,which is never a bad thing. It's all about the big picture and the further one can look ahead in regards to either Factory offerings or a blueprint on a Custom,the happier you will be.

Longer bullets upon a like case,wearing like freebore,will always require more COAL latitude. A 243Win is really tough to fuck up on a 700 and even Remington does it right out of the box,in regards to throat geometry and upper echelon BC's. A 260,7-08 and 308 will never be able to arrange same as issued,if only because their projectiles are sooooooo much fucking longer,even if assuming like freebore specs. A DBM more than offsets said differences and is a robust/reliable route to instant gratification. Doubly so,when one can know well in advance to cutting a DBM check,how said rifle performs at said COAL and with the best of available bullets. That's pretty fucking cheap R&D.

A few boolits of the ilk. .224",.243",.284" and a lonely .308" 208'Max.



More clarity.

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1000 words on Krunchenticker COAL and the beauty of 75ELD and 108ELD magfed smooches.




These long summer days will wear a guy out and heat up more than a few barrels,due the amount of daylight. We were shooting past 10:00PM last night,squirting 105 Hornie BTHP's at LR via 6XC Montucky,confirming come-ups for the warm/fuzzy. That bullet is all but a Free Ride in regards to Precision,Performance,Terminal Effects and Cost. They also happen to recoil less than 260,7-08 and 308 etc.,due the difference in projectile mass. None of the lot will beat the fuck out of a guy,but recoil reduction never hurts the equation,especially when wishing to bank upon the sanctity of getting trace/impact feedback for wind doping and the like. I'm rather at ease in gunning my Baby BR at Long Range,when others are gunning 6XC,243Win,243AI,6-284,Six Twat-Six or the like. Mainly because it's ALL about Good Dope and the BR chambering is so fucking amazingly consistent. Mild manners pay huge dividends.

As a day in/day out Utilitarian chambering,the fast twist .378" 270's flingin' 105's has gained alotta traction. You can build without much barrel length(mine are 18" and 19"),brass is all but free,the 105 Hornie BTHP shines brightly in it and they really fuck with heads...given their Itty-Bittyness. Everyone who's shot said chambering/boolit,LOVES the melding. Seen it.(grin)

The more realistic one can be for the duties slated a rifle(ANY rifle),the more dots can be connected by default. With throat,twist and COAL nicely nipped,it's really pretty tough to fuck something up. Conjoin that with something fun to shoot,that'll make chasing trace/impact a literal breeze and the "luck" runneth over. Bullets matter a whole fucking bunch more than headstamps and folks are always in a hurry to overlook that.

Coming full circle and if only for conversation,your factory 700 243Win spout squirting said 105's at 3050fps,will stomp a Custom 7-08 spout squirting 140 AccuBombs. The 105's have a much better BC and a greater muzzle velocity,which are factors that tend to dictate boolit's flight and terminal effects.(grin)

The difference in mass is meaningless,but on the brightside,the 7-08 will recoil more and some swoon that avenue. It will drop/drift more and arrive the scene at lesser impact velocities to boot,so it ain't a very pretty picture from any fucking angle. 'Course AccuBombs are a whole bunch more expensive and pale in Precision downrange. Bullets matter,more than a whole fucking bunch.

We'll save the Scope Talk for later.................(grin)
 

Cuando

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2014
865
7
I ran out of mag box kissing the 108 ELD's in my Montana .243AI fwiw.

Reloder 26 is looking pretty damn good with the 105's however. Need to check out temp issues this weekend when shit hits 105*.
 

Big Stick

Well-known member
Nov 18, 2007
41,606
245
Paradise
In relation to other boolits,how much more COAL did your batch of 108's chew up?

Still to date,I've yet to have a throat that was "too short",but could write LOTSA books on 'em that were too fucking long...............
 

Cuando

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2014
865
7
.243AI

105 Amax kissing @ 2.812"
105 HPBT kissing @ 2.805"
108 ELD kissing @ 2.848"

Can't sell me on a .22 Grendel in a bolt gun. In an AR-15 it makes sense though.

The 75 ELD's are the real deal. Watched a buddy go 8 for 10 on a 14" plate at 1,140 in shitty conditions with his GAP .223 and Varget.
 

Big Stick

Well-known member
Nov 18, 2007
41,606
245
Paradise
A 22PPC Improved in Lapooey no-turn brass that's ready to smooch a false shoulder,don't take ANY fucking "selling". You shoot the bitch once and you's hooked. Seen it.(grin)

AR DBM COAL latitude in a 700,would frost the cake in splendid fashion..................


 

Big Stick

Well-known member
Nov 18, 2007
41,606
245
Paradise
I've seen worse.

DBM's are simplistic and PTG pokes more meat on 'em,than lotsa folks do.

6mm Kreedmire spout,bushing dies,.272" TiN bushing,Alpha brass and 108's enroute. Gonna be a SNEAKY Sleeper Bitch.

I reckon it'll catch right the fuck on...............(grin)
 

Lineman

Well-known member
Dec 31, 2010
1,046
5
VA
6mm Kreedmire spout,bushing dies,.272" TiN bushing,Alpha brass and 108's enroute. Gonna be a SNEAKY Sleeper Bitch.
Jesus.....

Seems you've always got a couple builds in progress.

Just curious do you get rid of most of em after a bit? Or have a massive pile(s) of rifles laying around somewhere?
 

Big Stick

Well-known member
Nov 18, 2007
41,606
245
Paradise
I ain't no good at lingering,or fucking around...so simply do not. If I'm curious,I procure and R&D same,letting them chips fall where they may in the relative spectrum of unbiased evaluation(s).

Cain't remember the last time I sold something,but give a shit ton away and have always liked to trade. I'm at ease in accruing.(grin)

Logistics can be a bitch,so when in doubt I throw it out and round up. Have never not seen the approach bear fruit. Because I shoot daily,large Lots of like wares interest me and I could give a fuck less about a "deal" on a sprinkle of sumptin'. Consistency is key and I prolly should have never mentioned "Lot numbers" to anyone,nor shared when/where/how to shop. But in fairness...I never did learn how to be greedy.

When the dust settles,the best dope ALWAYS wins,if only because it cain't go ANY other way. Doesn't matter if it's slingshots,crossbows,bowling balls,rimfire or anything else. The Industry is sloooowwwwllllllllly catching the fuck on,that it's ALL about good mechanical designs that are consistent. Had the Fieldcraft unveiled years ago,it would of saved me 100 Custom builds. Shit happens and the weak link would be as it is always and that's Today's bullets(LRF's and scopes that track).

I tend to pay attention as I go and results interest me,which fucks alotta folks up...while cracking me up. Little things DO tend to matter. Seen it.(grin)

It's often funny to gun the BEST shit from back in The Day and extrapolate them changes. I'm at ease in going OLD School and letting others have the first shot,while banking upon Today's LRF's and Scopes to track yesterday's boolits,BETTER than ever. Could I be forced or dared into a Retard Twisted rifle tomorrow? Nope. If someone showed up with same,could I shoot it better than them? Yep?(grin)

The fun part of having fun,is the fun part and I'm glad to appreciate them not sooooooo fucking subtle "nuances".

I HOPE to fuck someone can clean my clock,as I take the 26" 6 Kreedmire and it's 108 ELD's down to 21" due balance/handling,but it assuredly ain't gonna happen. I've done got's me MOJO on my side!................
 

Big Stick

Well-known member
Nov 18, 2007
41,606
245
Paradise
The Kenko 'tubes arrived today and though I KNOW I've got another set somewhere...I cain't now that location.(grin)



Anywhooo,I rather like the Little Guy on the Siggy ART and it's creativity options are boundless. Will play Slap & Tickle with all of them upon the DSLR Herd,and am perhaps most curious about the Long Shot on the oldest body and it's unequalled shutter speed capabilities. Can see the melding being a rather poignant Creative Effect,in the right light.

I LOVE Sleepers.................(grin)
 

Torleif

Well-known member
Mar 11, 2017
45
0
Sunset Bay, AK
Trying to work up the courage to lop off at least a few inches from this 24" heavy sporter barrel. My goal is to build a compact hunting rifle that I can slip in the sleeve on my barney pack and not have the muzzle be way up over my head getting caught up on everything on the way up. I'm thinking 21" max, I'm tempted to just whack it at 18" or 19" right off the bat though. Been thinking that I would shoot it full length first and see what I loose by cutting it, but I feel like cutting to the chase right about now.
 

Big Stick

Well-known member
Nov 18, 2007
41,606
245
Paradise
Knock the bitch back...you'll never regret it.

21" is a constant theme in these parts. The 6 Kreedmire ships as 26" and will get the chop,just as fast as I can....................
 

Torleif

Well-known member
Mar 11, 2017
45
0
Sunset Bay, AK
Chopped it to 21" with a hacksaw. Used a bastard and a brownells tool to square the barrel and put an 11 degree crown to about 3/16" shy of the perimeter on it. Looks slick and is much handier.

Ran 3 dry patches through it and I think I'm ready to start laying moly.
 

Torleif

Well-known member
Mar 11, 2017
45
0
Sunset Bay, AK
The rifle sits dead on my bags and puts them all in one ragged hole at 100 yards off the bench.

Wondering if I should have ran anything other than a dry patch through the bore before I started shooting it or if I should be doing anything to break I the barrel other than just keep gunning moly.
 

Big Stick

Well-known member
Nov 18, 2007
41,606
245
Paradise
I like to start as clean as I can,but have done it every fucking way there is.

Much of it has to do with bore quality/consistency...............
 

Torleif

Well-known member
Mar 11, 2017
45
0
Sunset Bay, AK
I've put 80 rounds through it so far. I did not cut to the chase with the dbm or 162's, but I am still planning on heading that direction during the dark months.

I started with 50 nosler 140 btbts with a smooch infront of 40 grains of R17 for a fireforming load. It lost 15.5" at 300 with a 100 yard zero, but the thing shoot lights out and so far I've been very pleased to find that my trusty old Leupold is tracking dead nuts.

I reloaded 30 rounds to magazine length (2.810"). 3 rounds per charge starting at 40 grains and working up .5 grains at a time. Everything shot under 1" at 100. Surprisingly, 40 grains with the jump shot the largest group. My hottest load was 44.5 grains and I was pleased to see that it was one of the best groups with 2 in one hole and the other about .5" high.

I'm going to try a few rounds each at 45, 45.5 and 46 next. I'll keep an eye out for signs of excessive pressures and monitor accuracy. After I find a happy medium between accuracy and velocity I'll get some dope on it and spend the rest of my free time getting my lungs and legs ready.
 

Torleif

Well-known member
Mar 11, 2017
45
0
Sunset Bay, AK
I found a happy spot toward the upper end. Loaded a handful more to verify.

I'm thinking about rattle canning the barrel to give it a dull finish. Next time I'll go with a bead blasted finish.
 

Driftin'

Well-known member
Nov 16, 2009
2,188
4
Offshore
Torleif said:
It lost 15.5" at 300 with a 100 yard zero....
With the load cited above and with a 250 yard zero rather than 100, you'd be 3.5" high at 150 and 4" low at 300. Think of the advantages. JBM is your friend....
 

Big Stick

Well-known member
Nov 18, 2007
41,606
245
Paradise
I beat the GOOD Zero Drum...long,loud and often.

If I weren't shooting 162's and gunning a Reupold,it'd be 120's for me................
 

Torleif

Well-known member
Mar 11, 2017
45
0
Sunset Bay, AK
Now that I settled on a load I need to get back out and get some data on it. Then I can pick a zero that makes sense.

Looks like I ordered the wrong DBM.... I poked together a dummy with the 162s and they are 2.944 for a kiss. way too long for this mag that I got. After I gun through this stash of 140s I think I'll see what the 120s look like for this setup and decide what I want to do from there.

PT&G has Remington .223 bolt face short actions for under $300 right now. I think I'll snatch one up and use this dbm on that project for a .223AI.

Anybody check out Grayboe stocks?
 

Big Stick

Well-known member
Nov 18, 2007
41,606
245
Paradise
I'd be VERY surprised if you bought a "wrong" DBM,but you assuredly have a mag of trite confines. A herd of different mags will mate an AICS footprint DBM and their relative COAL will run the gamut from 2.8" to nearly 3".

Simply score an AccurateMag binderless 308 mag and you are there with your 2.944" Smooch...with room to spare.

No big deal............
 

Torleif

Well-known member
Mar 11, 2017
45
0
Sunset Bay, AK
Okay, I see. Better get a couple...

I saw where PT&G sells a DBM that comes with a mag bearing more generous COAL restraints. I was thinking that would have been the "right" DBM.

and this mag isn't right for .223 either.... I don't know where I came up with that... The idea of a brand new action for $285 got me going...Still want to grab one... I'm all horned up to poke some more rifles together.... One of these days, I might even get one right....grin
 

Big Stick

Well-known member
Nov 18, 2007
41,606
245
Paradise
For 223 mags in an AIUCS footprint DBM,it's tough to whoop MDT polymer 10's and AccurateMag steel 5-rounders.

AICS mag(they are bindered).




Binderless and bindered...same AICS DBM footprint,though grossly different COAL.



Binderless as compared to OEM 700 COAL confines.



Bindered with Primal BR guts.



AM steel 5rd and MDT poly 10rd 223 mags.



All the same DBM...will happily eat these mags.............
 

Big Stick

Well-known member
Nov 18, 2007
41,606
245
Paradise
That's why I like living in Big Cities.

Gotta chop nearly halfa fucking foot of spout offa 6 Kreedmire................
 

Torleif

Well-known member
Mar 11, 2017
45
0
Sunset Bay, AK
Got 170 rounds through the 08 now. I'm out of 17, but ratholed 25 rounds to hunt with and occasionally check zero. Zeroed at 200, I'm less than 2" high at 100 and roughly 3" low at 250. I don't plan to take a shot outside that range without having a minute to make the appropriate adjustment and I haven't had an opportunity to get out past 330 anyway. There's still lots of fun to be had once the next barge with some r17 on it makes it to port. I'll get out in the skiff somewhere that you can see for a bit.

In the mean time I've been tooling around with H1000 in my .243. Should be 2900+ with a max load infront of a WLR and behind a 100 grain BTSP at 2.770" Which groups very nicely out of old "Meat Machine". My next move here is peeling off this heavy ass hs precision stock, replacing it with an edge and swapping this monster 3.5-10x50 leupold for a 30mm 6x or 10x FF in talleys. Might be get closer to light done rightish. All the same this old bitty has killed plenty of bucks and did so just fine for years with factory fodder in the original pos stock while wearing a 4x scope of unknown origin.
 

Big Stick

Well-known member
Nov 18, 2007
41,606
245
Paradise
Bucked the 6 Kreedmire back to 21.5" and the MQ reticle will get 'er to the 1190yd line,from it's 225yd zero.

Purty nice parcel.



It'll only get better.....................
 

Torleif

Well-known member
Mar 11, 2017
45
0
Sunset Bay, AK
Two critters down since the 1st. Both lung shots at relatively close range with the '19/140btbt setup. A meat buck opening day and a big goat more recently. Somehow the bullet managed to slip through the ribs on both animals. Small entry, small exit. Lots of blood. Zero meat loss and neither traveled far after the hit or went off a cliff. All good things.

On another note. After looking at my invoice from PT&G, I realized they were the ones that screwed up by sending the bindered mag and I did order things right. A phone call straightened things out no problem and a couple weeks after mailing back the bindered mag, two binderless mags showed up..... Grin

I'm still trying to decide if I want to inlet this bottom metal and notch this receiver. Or go with another option and swap the barrel for a fast twist .243 that would work nicely in the current configuration. Since I have the gauges, dies, brass, etc. it would be cheap as a new barrel. I would just start over on the '08 with a different action and a new stock. Go McMillan, horns and 10x FF this time and get it right.
 

Big Stick

Well-known member
Nov 18, 2007
41,606
245
Paradise
I've shot a Gajillion 120 and 140 .284" NBT's in my Life,in everything from 7-08 to 7STW's...with most stops along the way. Had too many splash at 7-08 velocities and learned some hard lessons. I don't know a single soul who flings NBT's in anything now...though they were nearly a mainstay,for a goodly while. The .308" 150's and 165's are Zooky fuckers too.

'19 is a bitter pill with 140's,especially in say OEM 700 confines,due compression. It swings wildly Lot to Lot too and a guy always wants to poke a toe in those waters,prior to The Plunge.

The nice thing about 162's in regards to terminal affects,is that it don't matter which angle they're inserted,nor do they care about bone. I happily shoot 'em like an X. Meat gets it in the ear,Good Un's get broken shoulders.

I'd go binderless 162 ELD Smooches and never look back.

Lookin' ahead,I hear good thangs about 1-8" and 1-7" 6 Kreedmires................
 

Torleif

Well-known member
Mar 11, 2017
45
0
Sunset Bay, AK
Took the plunge and inlet for the bottom metal. It's a little crude. Needs a little glass and paint, but she'll be right. Still need to notch the receiver.
 

Torleif

Well-known member
Mar 11, 2017
45
0
Sunset Bay, AK
I drilled out the pillars and installed new ones, re-bed the lug and action too. After that was cleaned up I loaded 3 dummies with the 162s and dremeled the notch until they would feed from either side of the mag without getting hung up. I got ahold of a couple lbs of '17 too. Now I need to put together a handful of loads and wait for a break in the weather. Chronograph came in a couple weeks ago, but I haven't even opened that box.
 

Big Stick

Well-known member
Nov 18, 2007
41,606
245
Paradise
Don't inlet the receiver "just enough",or it will fuck you. Rounds under recoil impulse,will drive forward and nose under the receiver lip and you'll be hating life. Hog it out all the way,so it will accept rounds at maximum mag latitude,as a minimum.

Hint...............
 

Torleif

Well-known member
Mar 11, 2017
45
0
Sunset Bay, AK
Looking to stick a 6x SS in XTR signatures on. Any tips/hints on ring height for the 42mm with the heavy sporter barrel? And exactly which one of them super chickens should I be looking at?
 

Big Stick

Well-known member
Nov 18, 2007
41,606
245
Paradise
The melding tends to work rather nicely,in both Theory and Application.

Nice to be able to do it all and sooooooo easily................